Way Geeked Out or Am I Making This Too Hard?

[toosuto]

So in a d20 campaign world where clerics etc. are abundant. What exactly is it that keeps any sort of deity from tromping through the material plane in their grudge match with other deities? I am trying to put together a campaign for an Eberron type setting (assuming I eventually get my hands on the Eberron source book but the plot I considering will eventual include godly involvement, what cosmological reasoning keeps them nicely out of the campaign world 99% time? If any god has the ability to empower clerics what's to stop them from getting the job done themselves? How many more times can I ask the same question?

Comments

[dr-tectonic.livejournal.com]

Well, obvious answer to why a deity wouldn't come and do it himself (assuming that "it" is something the deity cares about a lot) is either "he can't" or "he won't". So you just need to pick one of the two and flesh it out.

If it's the latter, figure out the reason why (gentlemen's agreement with the other deities? Higher priorities elsewhere? Somehow important to get the humans to do it?) and then just work out the implications of that.

If it's the former, just figure out what the limitations on his power on this plane are and their implications. Maybe the deity can only manifest directly if a particular ceremony is completed (quest hook!). Maybe he can't manifest at all and must work through clerics.

Maybe deities don't have any "person-ness" to them; the god of nature is simply the union of all the nature-oriented power, and any "desires" that it expresses are simply the result of filtering that nature-aligned power through a human mind...

Or maybe a god's mind is just completely inscrutable and incomprehensible to man. They don't interfere themselves because they don't, and we'll never understand why.

Anyway, I think the answer is just to pick a reason that gives you the result you want and feels aesthetically pleasing to you in the context of your game, then run with it.

[toosuto.livejournal.com]

Won't seems so very short sighted for a god (who shouldbe able to percieve the intricate goings on and such) and can't doesn't seem very godly) I am finding it unsatisfactory and I think I really am trying to hard when cosmology will really not play a role in the whole affair...

[dr-tectonic.livejournal.com]

Then go with "won't, for really good reasons that only make sense from an uber-high-level godly perspective", AKA, "I could tell you, but your brain would pop."

[toosuto.livejournal.com]

and then we could make biscuits. I like biscuits.

Perfectly logical

[(Anonymous)]

It's 'cuz when gods manifest they get DUMB - as Kate would say dumb as a bag of football bats...

They know this, and don't want to manifesting, getting dumb, and pissing off THEIR gods... and or the big brother of the god next door...

and god-wedgies are not the thing the cool kids have.

The answer, my friend, is . . . .

[goobermunch.livejournal.com]

In Eberron. See, the gods in Eberron aren't like the gods in other D&D games. Eberron's gods are more like platonic ideals than a group of incestuous children with unlimited cosmic power. They never take an active role in the world.

In fact, the gods of Eberron are so passive that the normal D20 rules regarding cleric and deity alignments are removed. Normally, a cleric's alignment must be within one "step" of his or her deity's. In other words, a Lawful Good god can have Neutral Good, Lawful Good, and Lawful Neutral followers.

In Eberron, the gods can have worshippers of any alignment. Further, these worshippers all receive spells. This means that the Inquisitor of the Silver Flame (the Silver Flame is a Lawful Good deity with a big hate-on for shapechangers) who contacts the party may in fact be a sadistic Neutral Evil facist who gets off on torturing lycanthrope children.

So the ultimate answer for your Eberron style game is simply the gods just don't stomp around the Prime.

--G

[theosphere.livejournal.com]

I tend to think that the Material Plane holds infinitely less significance to the gods than the planes which represent their alignments and power structures. It's a constant battle for position on the outer planes, wherein each god is either warring for control over his/her plane or doing their best to see that their plane doesn't fall into another alignment and therefore into the hands of another god.

The gods choose to let their clerics and children and lesser spirits represent them and their power, because it is economical and prudent to do so. Sometimes one or two make a power play on the material plane, but mostly as a gesture to another god that their strength is growing and the other gods need to fuck off and leave their home plane alone.

Manual of the Planes from Wizards of the Coast is what you are looking for.

[theosphere.livejournal.com]

Also...

Happy Holidays, Skipper! Send my love to the Wife, the fam, and the lil' avacado.

[toosuto.livejournal.com]

Done and Done, Happy christmas times yourself, it's good to see you surface sometimes...

Re: The answer, my friend, is . . . .

[toosuto.livejournal.com]

but I like overcomplicating things. It keeps me from accomplishing anything...

Kate Geeks in...

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, honestly, it strikes me that although at some level, to our eyes, it would seem that the deities in the various d20 worlds are more active in the worlds by granting clerics spells and what-not, I'm not sure that that's honestly the case. It sounds like you are trying to want the dieties of the fictional world to be more scrutable than the ones we know in this one.

Put it this way: just like the real world, where people don't get what their own dieties do/are, why should they understand what dieties in fictional worlds do (or don't do)?

All the examples of different cosmologies that people have provided, and how they react, are, quite frankly cosmologies that have existed, in some form or another from the start of time. Dieties as petulant children? Check. Dieties as removed, uncaring figures, who don't care what their followers are doing? Check. Dieties who've imbued special followers with the abilities to perform miracles? Check. Dieties who have grudge matchies with other dieties? Also, check. Basically, dieties in fictional worlds pretty match the way dieties work in life, which means any number of behaviors, motivations, etc. can be attributed.

So, Josh, really, how does a diety work in your world?

k8

Re: Kate Geeks in...

[toosuto.livejournal.com]

good question. I need to work that out in the next week or so I think.